NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

This is a Public Discussion Forum and is open to everyone. Subject matter should be confined to Mounted Rifles.

Moderators: greg, Steve_Butler

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby pukman » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:06 pm

Hello Jonathan, the answer to your question.I have owned at one time, all of the badges you have mentioned,but at the end of the day they didn't get me that excited.Sure they were an integral part of the NZ army but there pretty boring really,both in design and history of the units.I tried to keep my collection of those fella's that risked there neck or at least had a interesting story.Still got 9 spots to fill and finish sets and get some really rare items as well.Sweetheart collection ''needs '' more attention as well.

gidday Byrd,I have that badge that you have seen on trademe,In fact a have 3 varieties of this badge.Its usually referred to as ''Rampant horse over NZMR in crowned reinforcement frame''.There is at least 18 varities of this badge that i know.Most are brass,some are brass frames with white metal horses,horses facing either way,frames differ(various different manufacturers)there are even collar size ones.The one on t/m is the most common one,although as in all Mounted reinforcements this stuff is rare.Also see a Camel corp badge listed for the big spenders out there.
cheers pukman
Last edited by pukman on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
pukman
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:57 am

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby Jonsig » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:51 pm

It shows we all have different ideas on what is exciting :) although to say The NZ Medical corps and Engineers plus the others corps had a boring history would get a few backs up 8O .
I have the all of the Infantry and MR and corps badges, I try to collect the early and rare types.
I do not collect reinforcement badges not my interest, they are very nice but more of a training badge.

Cheers Jonathan
User avatar
Jonsig
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby byrd » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:26 pm

Pukman, thanks again.
Jonathan, thanks for the heads up on the ICC badge. I put a bid in just to see where the resurve is, might be tempeted to go further but will have to talk to my brother and sisters to get a "donation". Very hard to justify the cost but if its genuine its worth a look. My grandfather was in the ICC so I have a bit of an interest there. As for reinforcement badges, I was looking for a NZMR 12th reinforcement badge as my grandfeather was in the 12th. However people with far more knowlegde than me have said that there was no 12th badge as such and that he probably had a general reinforcement badge. Learning all the time. Thank you. Byrd
byrd
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:33 pm

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby pukman » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:21 pm

Jonathan,thanks for your opinion.I probably had most of those badges when i was 13,and i've had the preceeding 27 years to form an opinion,which is my own.I could possibly fit an engineers hat badge next to the Tunnelers for contrast.The NZVC was one i pondered over for a long time.But i would have to take a whole jar of the pills Hugh Hefner takes before bedtime before gettting excited about the NZASC.The Medical corp was worthy and the Dental corp fought alot of cavities ,but theirs only so much room in my display cabinet.

I sold most of these badges in 2003 on trademe ,i would be lucky to sell them in 2008.In contrast reinforcement badges in this time have increased 2 1/2 times in value and their seems a steady demand.As for the NZMR reinforcements the value is in thier rarity,and along with the infantry reinforcements i think some of the designs are stunning and quintessentally kiwi.

Cheers pukman
User avatar
pukman
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:57 am

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby Jonsig » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:51 pm

Pukman

Thanks for your opinion, To me its not all about money and value of items, Just collecting badges is only one part of the story.
for me
I have to say your Camp Quartermasters badge is dull historically , 1914-1918 I put my back out, stocking the shelves.
Hardly riveting stuff as you say., but still has its part in NZ Military history.
Was not an attack on your collection , just asked why you did not have them and your thoughts.

Cheers Jonathan
User avatar
Jonsig
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby pukman » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:20 am

Jonathan,thanks again for your interest.Value maybe quite important for me as i have done some heavy labour over the years(shearing,crutching,docking/tailing) to be able to afford these items.i won't be selling them in my lifetime,so I would like to think there would be added value to one of my three boys or successive generations.My value is being here to see them and enjoy them.

I agree the Camp quater master store badge is not the most rivieting bage,but it ties in with the other reinforcement badges,being a NZASC reiforcement badge,and again reasonably rare.

In my opinion,the reinforcement badges were a very important part of New Zealand military history.In the training grounds the men formed a comradeship and pride in their respective drafts,which in turn, helped to form an 'espirit de corps'' when they moved onto regimental or corps level.To some men ,the reinforcement badge was the only one they got to wear,dieing from disease or accident during training or for example Private James Ellens 8/1461 3rd reinforcements,dieing of enteric fever after immediately after getting of the transport in Egypt

Again ,none of your comments were taken to heart.Interesting to see a slightly different view on what is a worthy pastime.

Maybe i should start a second display cabinet,but i can hear the wife grinding her teeth already.

Cheers Pukman
User avatar
pukman
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:57 am

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby Jonsig » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:30 pm

Yes I can see this would have taken you a while to get that all together and it is a good investment.
I collect all sides of it including uniforms and equipment so i had to sell what Reenforcement badges I did have sadly to pay for other I Items.
I have a 02 Tunic the belonged to a Aucklander he was Killed in Action in 1918 in France He was a 19th Reinforcement and in the college rifles pre WW1 also, be came part of 3rd Auckland then transfered to NZRB, attached to the Australian Tunnel company also. So a wealth of badges he must of had :) I have copies of photos of him in the tunic I own with his 19th Reinforcements badges on and also some others taken in the same studio with his College Rifles badges on this tunic.
The tunic has NZRB badges on it but still with its brass buttons I fell very lucky to own this tunic.
You can see the holes of the nineteens.

Cheers Jonathan
User avatar
Jonsig
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby greg » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:51 pm

Hi Jonsig,

Do you have an MR Officers tunic or a patter of it? Or a nice picture front and back??

Many thanks
G.I. Bradley
greg
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Bulls, NZ

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby Jonsig » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:46 pm

Hi Greg

No I do not have a tunic that belonged to a NZMR Office.
The pattern is the same for all officers in the NZ Forces at that time I can get a pic for you Cuffrank or K.D?
Jonathan
User avatar
Jonsig
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby greg » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:51 am

Hi Jonsig,

If you can manage both, that would be great!
G.I. Bradley
greg
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Bulls, NZ

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby pukman » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:27 pm

Of course the study of NZMR reinforcement badges would'nt be complete without touching on the ''sweetheart badge".My small collection (a work in progress) has a few NZMR ones but are generally rarer than the infantry variety.

A sweetheart badge was a jeweller made badge, which were purchased by soldiers departing to the war overseas,and given by them to their sweethearts ,wives ,sisters and mothers.They were treasured them as a keepsake,and worn proudly to signify the connection with a loved one serving his king and country.They were normally made in sterling silver,occasionally in solid gold,and sometimes in a combination of both,and worn by means of a brooch pin at the back.Sometimes a soldier would have his brass reinforcement badge converted with a brooch pin on the back ,to give as a gift.

The 23rd Mounted rifle reinforcement(double horse head) sweetheart badge is a real rarity,there were only about 129 troopers in this draft with only a small precentage wearing this brass badge,and a smaller percentage of sweethearts.

Spare a thought for the RiflemanJ.T Johnstone 23/467.His initials and service number along with his with his girlfriend's initials are engraved on the rifle sweetheart.He was in camp in Egypt in 1915 for only 3 weekswhen he became ill.One month later he died from dystentary.

Picture to follow; Cheers Pukman
User avatar
pukman
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:57 am

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby byrd » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:54 pm

I have managed to locate and aquire my grandfathers original medals and badges. He was in the 12th reinforcements (WWCMR) and his badge is like left hand one above the words "variations of reinforcement badges - copy to follow" on the badge page except the horse is facing left not right. He also had a NZRB badge and a NZRB reinforcement badge. Can anyone tell me if there would be any reason for him to have both? I guess he had the rearest badge ever made, it's a hand made aluminium badge with F ANDERSON 12568 N2 NZ M.G.S. on it. Byrd
byrd
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:33 pm

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby Steve_Butler » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:23 pm

AHH! at last Pukman, have been a little sidetracked lately but here is a PDF file of the great selection of badges you sent up - I have taken the 8 meg image and converted to PDF - it will take a few seconds to download on high band as the file is 375kb - not big really at all, but a slight delay - don't run off without looking at this collection - well done
File at:
http://www.nzmr.org/pdf/badge_collection_006.pdf

please use the magnify and side bars option to enlarge individual badges.
thanks again Pukman
User avatar
Steve_Butler
 
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:08 am
Location: Auckland

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby pukman » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:51 pm

Hello again Byrd,the reinforcement badge was worn while in camp in NZ and while on the transport and would be private purchase from a jewellers near camp.It was unofficial and was a individual's choice,and as it cost money it was up to the individual whether they bought them or not,dependent on finances and preferences,When he was posted in Egypt he would be issued by the army the official NZRB badges,and the reinforcement badges discarded or sent home.This was standard practice.
But sometimes soldiers wore there reinforcement badges throughout the war,depending on the individual. Nice to know you've got your grandads stuff,a lot has been lost to families over the years.There is a few badges named ,with sevice number,they were made for individuals by jewellers and are unique,mainly as a sweetheart badge.Was your grandfather tranferred from the 12th mounteds to either E,F,G,H company sometime in his training? His personell file will have it written on it.E 1st battalion NZRB,F (2nd),G (3rd) and ,H (4th).Its not uncommon for a soldier/trooper to have had more than one reinforcement badge due to transfers.

cheers Pukman
User avatar
pukman
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:57 am

Re: NZMR REINFORCEMENT BADGES

Postby byrd » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:29 pm

Hi Pukman, as far as I can work out he went straight into the ICC on his arrival in Egypt. His arrival date is just before the the initial formation of the 15th brigade. Once the 15th was disbanded he went to the N2 NZ MGS. This could be completetly wrong of course but I'm still working on it. As for his medals and badges, appart from the hand made N2 NZ MGS badge the only other named and numbered ones are his British War Medal, Victory Medal and his RSA badge. It was good to get them, as it turned out they weren't that far away. My fathers cousin's son had them. Thanks again, Byrd
byrd
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to NZMR General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron