Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby Jonsig » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:16 pm

Hi

Thanks for showing the photograph very nice to see.
One other item to point to an early date is the lieutenant in the enlarged pic, has the early high collar and woven wire epaulets not seen later than 1915.

Regards JP
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby atillathenunns » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:03 pm

Hmmmm, I think this might solve the puzzle.

Evening Post, 1 September 1914.
PRESENTING THE COLOURS.
(Awapuni Camp)
On Sunday, Mr. L. G. and Mrs. West, parents of the late Trooper West who died last week, presented the New Zealand ensign to his late camp comrades of J Battery. Quartermaster-Sergeant Cuff, acknowledging the gift, said they would hoist the flag wherever they possibly could on the same occasion as the Union Jack.
Captain Stevens, on behalf of the ladies of Taranaki, presented Colonel Malone, for the Taranaki Infantry Regiment, with a Union Jack.
Mrs. Joll, on behalf of the ladies of Taranaki, presented the "second Mounted Rifles" with a flag, bearing their distinctive colours.
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby andy » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:37 pm

My great aunt Barbara Elmslie (Jim's sister) helped design the ponga tree motif used for the guidon and badge. Its mentioned in "Kiwi Trooper" Does anyone know where the flag is located now? (Waiouru Museum perhaps?)
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby Steve_Butler » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:01 pm

Thanks Attilla - that looks pretty conclusive - do you know where we might get a scan of the newspaper item - or do you have one?

Great research.
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby Steve_Butler » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:12 pm

Wow Brent - that is such apowerful resource, I havent seen it before - I will add it to our links page.

Here is the link:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby byrd » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:37 pm

Hello Andy,
I read somewhere that the flag had been "Laid up" in a church in either Waverly, Patea or Hawera. I have the info somewhere and will find out for you. My grandfather was in the WWCMR and shipped out with the 12th reinforcements. I'm collecting info about the WWCMR and the ICC. Good luck, Rodger
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby andy » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:53 pm

Thanks Rodger,
Yes I think it was laid up in the Waverley Presbyterian Church, but the church has now been demolished and I am not sure where the flag went to after that. Would be interested to know.
Andy
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby Tarata » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:21 pm

Hi
PreGallipoli for the Wellington Mounted Rifles is pre 12 May 1915, as the WMR war diary starts on the 12 May (National Archives, Well).
However, in David Paterson's Pay Book (11/596), he received ten shillings on the 5th May in Anzac Cove from J B Browne Pay Clerk. Did other regiments of the Mounted Rifles travel over ahead of the WMR? The date is clearly written!
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby atillathenunns » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:20 pm

Usually advance parties were sent ahead of the main troops to prepare for their arrival. It could be your man fits into this catagory.
Brent
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Re: Queen Alexandra's MR Photo, pre Gallipoli

Postby Tarata » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:16 pm

Brent
Thank you for your reply. Once I got my head around that, I noticed that on David Paterson's army service form, that 'Embarked for Dardanelles, 9/5/1915', is followed by a question mark, in the space for a form number. David Webster and Frank Capon do not have the question mark against their Dardanelles entry. Could the reader please check any records that they have, please?
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Re: A Special Denton Photo of the QAMR and Trooper Ross

Postby Tarata » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:54 am

The Denton QAMR photo seen in the Bulls Museum, is at first sight the same as to the one in 'Kiwi Trooper'. The latter is described as the 2nd Squadron at Zeitoun, Egypt, early in 1915.
In the text of Kiwi Trooper, p108, it is stated that "the Mounteds would soon be sent for, and occasion was taken to have troop photographs taken, one of which is reproduced. By this time the second and third reinforcements had arrived in Egypt". In the Denton photo, Cpl Little is named. Of the Littles listed in the Cenotaph website with 'Wellington' in their details, the earliest to leave was Trooper JA Little in the third reinforcements. He is not listed at Awapuni Camp, in September 1914, nor in the Embarkation lists of the WMR at National Archives. The Denton photo must be one of those taken at Zeitoun.
On the left of the Denton photo, the shadows are different from those in Kiwi Trooper, and the objects to the side of the leftmost Trooper are different. The Trooper, named as D Ross, is not the same as the Trooper in the Kiwi Trooper photo. All the other troopers etc look the same, and have the same head orientation. The Dog looks identical. It is very unlikely that this could be achieved with two sequential photos. The Denton photo is most likely a special photo prepared by substituting a photo of Trooper D Ross, in the Denton Studio in Wanganui. There are three D Ross's in the Cenotaph lists, who could have left early enough. One Gunner, and two Troopers, David 11/441, and Robert Dugald 9/198. David died of wounds in August 1915, in a hospital ship off Gallipoli. He enlisted at Brunswick, Wanganui.
Below is a collage of the same portion of each photo.

It is most likely that his family commissioned a photo of QAMR with him in the photo with Major Elmslie etc, or perhaps with a friend.
There must be other photos out there taken at Zeitoun, I hope that we can find them.
Peter
PhotosMaps1bb.jpg
A comparison of the left sides of the KiwiTroopers photo and the Denton photo
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