Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

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Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby greg » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:16 am

Hi Steve,

You dont happen to have the full picture of the battlefield do you? Can you get one and post it on the net?

Regards

Greg
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby Steve_Butler » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:39 pm

There is a bit of a story with the Ayun Kara drawing.
Image
Unfortunately the vault part of the storage area in the Museum is quite a small area indeed, I think the door is the biggest part :?
Even though I pushed as hard back into the rear shelves as possible I was unable to get the whole image in, and considering I was only using a 3 meg camera I didn't think I could get a good enough resolution shot, and wanting to show the actual size of the drawing I needed to have Betty in shot to give a size comparrison.
Image
This next shot showing Betty with another mounted rifles photograph allows you to understand how narrow the vault is (block wall each side) - I am actually standing outside the vault doorway in the large storage room - this tour was a rather hurried event and although I took a number of photos, it was more a case of trying to record items for future reference - it may well be a nice idea to flatbed scan the battlefield drawing to release to the public - it was something we would have to work out with the Museum in the future. It needs to be done the paper is looking very frail and thin now that is why they store it away from daylight or worse reflected sunlight.

Image
Here is a cutout from the scene -although it gives some idea of the drawing quality it really needs to be scanned.
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby GS » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:17 pm

Hi Steve and Greg!

This is, I must admit, a most exiting find: never heard of its assistance… I spent now a couple of minutes with my face pushed towards the screen trying to understand what is seen (but mostly in vain… ).

Do you know what is the source of this drawing? Who took it and are there any comments directly on it/related?

Is there a chance we will be able to see it scanned sometimes in the future? I think it could be of great help for me.

Edited: For a start it would be interesting to know if there is any connection between this drawing and the panorama drawing, originally included in an album issued in Australia at the 1920’s, in terms of one relaying on the other or both taken by the same artist.



Regards
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עיון קרא.jpg
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby Steve_Butler » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:46 am

Going back to my original photo, I have cropped it down to just the art work showing and then rendered it as grayscale image - (by taking the colour out it greatly reduces the kbs).
If you take where the artist (or someone else) has written 'Ayun Kara' as being the centre point of the panorama you can judge by how much of the scene is still missing.
Image

I hope that gives you a little closer look Gal - it is certainly not in any way related to the other image you sent in.
In defence of not getting any further information while I was there, I had only half an hour to whip through and copy about thirty other photos - still it is a good excuse to return :)

IMPORTANT: When I view this image directly on screen in the forum format I only see part of the image - I found by right-clicking the mouse button and selecting "View image" the computer then allowed me to see the full width on the browser.
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby greg » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:47 am

Hi Steve,

For some reason when I right click on the picture I do not get the View Picture option?? Never mind. For those that also do not have this option, click and drag the picture on to the status bar (that is the bar at the lower portion of your browser), this will show the whole picture in a new window or current window/tab depending how your browser is set up. Hope this helpful.

Regards
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby GS » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:29 pm

Steve and Greg

The reason I ask about details regarding these sketches is mostly as I want to know what else might be hiding over there. Maj. Powles mentions in his book that the CMR spent time when in Galipoli 1918-1919 to “learn the battlefields” and I assume they did the same in other battlefields.

The Panorama Sketch you brought here, to the best of my understanding, shows a piece of the battlefield which I captured on the attached map in between 2 green lines. The panorama which I brought (I have the original in English which is identical) catches an adjacent piece of the battlefield which I limited between the two blue lines.

These panoramas share some principles but also differ in others: the one in the Kauri museum seems to be fairly detailed, while the one done by the mysterious ANZAC div. painter is more rough and resembles more of a sketch done for military purposes.

HOWEVER both seems to have been taken from the same position (Where AMR HQ was) which might give us a clue about other sketches that were taken in the same occasion.

Quite strangely, at this point looking back some 5 years or research through maps, sketches and pictures, my conclusion is that as far as pictures and sketches are concerned, we only know about the minority: while much paper volume had been used to describe the final stage of the battle (the counter attack) much of the non written material is related actually to the earlier stages of the action: I actually never came across any picture/sketch that clearly shown the area where the AMR fought! No panorama, no picture – nothing! I have 3-4 pictures showing Turkish casualties spread in an area where sand dunes are clearly seen touching the non sandy soil – only AMR clashed the enemy in such areas – but all are rather focused and do not show large pieces of landscape.

The gap between what we can deduce from the written material and the pictorial one is still wide. This “new” sketch seems to lack any written comments, but had it included any, this was a real treasure. If by chance similar sketches exist, it might give a real kick to understanding various battle moves that are still rather unclear to the one who carefully looks into this action. As this sketch shows a rather marginal portion of the battlefield I have a good reason to suspect that there are/were others existing – of the more important portions.
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby Steve_Butler » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:57 pm

Image

The obilisk at Ayun Kara was WOOD?
visit our updates page for todays entry (28th december 2009)
http://www.nzmr.org/updates.htm
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby GS » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:04 pm

Steve!

“Great News” for me I guess, though cant really tell how great it is to know there was no real memorial, just a central grave marking on something that some regarded as “mass grave”…

This was the last piece of evidence I needed to complete a shot summery about this issue, which I hope to post quite soon…
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby greg » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:41 pm

Note the bullets on the base of the right face!! :)

BTW GS Where is the "Action at Ayun Kara" site now. Please advise. Also can you please reporduce the maps that you once had on the battlefield, etc. Important resources that should not be lost.
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby Steve_Butler » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:10 am

Image

I have posted this section of the CMR war diary of Novemeber 1917 written by the Adjutant, Captain Herbert Basil Hunson. This section covers the CMR's involvement at Ayun Kara - I was interested in what reference map he is using when he notes the position of the CMR line as: "13d - V9a".
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Re: Military art from the Ayun Kara Battlefield

Postby Bill Woerlee » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:40 am

Steve

Years ago I made this composite map of the area.

richondezionarea1ba2.jpg


It is a composite of two maps which intersect in this area. One map was not able to give the full picture of the action. The maps are:

Ramle B3 1:40,000 and Yebnah B2 1:40,000

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Bill

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Australian Light Horse Studies Centre
http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Horse/

Remembering -

2823 Private Herbert Leslie Schramm [1892-1960]: B Trp, A Sqn, 9th ALHR. The great grandfather of my children.
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