Blackman, Whiteman, Jew

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Postby Steve_Butler » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Hi Steve

We appear to be in luck!
As I mentioned previously there are more photos relating to this event that I am in the process of organising into some sort of page display - My idea is to show a few to see if members, or others, have information that I can follow up on before I put the page up on the site proper.

I believe the photograph was taken about 100 metres further down the road from where Gal took his photo - I believe the change in height of the fenced wall on the left hand side would be the position where the cameraman stood,

We have a third photo and here is a small section of it - It is the Indian Lancers escorting Turkish prisioners - and what is interesting is that the same two Arab gentlemen have moved a few paces towards the road and the camera has caught more of the city wall - in this shot I have over corrected deliberately the original contrast to show the walls as in the original is quite clouded and difficult to see with all the dust in the air.

Image

Image
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Postby Steve_Butler » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:49 pm

To find the Damascus Gate, and the wall shown in the picture above - including the "Augusta Victoria" enter these co-ordinates in Google Earth.

31°46'58.84"N
35°14'2.48"E

the wall runs East - West. Travel east from the wall to see the Augusta Victoria.
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Postby GS » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:13 am

Steve_Butler wrote:To find the Damascus Gate, and the wall shown in the picture above - including the "Augusta Victoria" enter these co-ordinates in Google Earth.

31°46'58.84"N
35°14'2.48"E

the wall runs East - West. Travel east from the wall to see the Augusta Victoria.


Steve!

If to be somewhat "petty"... the gate just behind the photographer, actually a secondary gate, is called "flowers gate" ("Ba'b el Za'hara") and sometimes "Herods gate".
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Postby Steve_Butler » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:30 am

Very interesting!
perhaps a few more comments Gal please -The red circle sits round a building that seems to me to be sitting at approximately the same angle to the roadway as we saw in the first photograph of the Light Horse riding towards the gate - Do you think it is the same building? and if so would it have a name?

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Australians vs. New Zealanders

Postby GS » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:57 am

Hi to All!

In a visit to a local small museum at the town of Ness Tsiona (Called also Nahalat Reuben and Wadi Hanein in WWI sources) I've seen two Great War photos, apparently from a local collection (I haven’t been able to find them at the AWM collection and don’t remember them at the Auckland WM collection). I could not see the originals yet since the archive is closed for now, so just took a picture of those on the wall. Both are titled as "Australian soldiers/officers", but I suspect this was established only since they don’t ware hats that are British/Scottish… Could anyone identify the people/nationality?

I have no knowledge as to when they were taken and by whom, but we know elements of the ANZAC brigade camped there occasionally until Dec. 1918.

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I believe the archive should include some written material that might be of interest. The reason I first got there was since their web site quoted what apparently was a pupils assay to school about "what I saw of the battle between the English and Turks": he was a witness the battle of Ayun Kara and wrote an interesting description of what he saw. Sadly it turned out that the part of his assay available online, was the only surviving, mostly since he used that notebook page to take some notes in other time…

Steve: One interesting piece of info. About this assay I could see when looking at the "original" was that in addition to all published online, he wrote and then erased "The yell of Jackals eating the Dead (Turks) also kept me from sleeping". Why did he erase that, I don’t know…

Anyway, I decided to help them "digitalize" part of the archive so I could search the documents. I expect some interesting material coming from there about the ANZAC division – trusting from what detailed data is there just by looking on 2-3 random documents.
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Postby GS » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:55 am

Steve_Butler wrote:Very interesting!
perhaps a few more comments Gal please -The red circle sits round a building that seems to me to be sitting at approximately the same angle to the roadway as we saw in the first photograph of the Light Horse riding towards the gate - Do you think it is the same building? and if so would it have a name?

Image


Steve!

Yes, that is the same building, only with 2 smaller ones added to its sides. The aerial of 1917 shows it to be the only building there: today current map tells it hosts a "a Rashidiye high school for boys".
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Re: Blackman, Whiteman, Jew

Postby Bill Woerlee » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:57 am

Mates

Just getting back to the unit identification, I was looking for a copy of this pic which was hidden on my computer. I knew I had it but couldn't put my hands onto it - poor cataloguing on my part - but here it is. You can clearly see a tassel dangling from the right epaulette.

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And yet again, an example of a different style of tassel, this time dangling from the left epaulette

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These pics explain the "shadowing" or darkened section covering the shoulder patch. They are tassels attached to their epaulette. If you look carefully, the Australians have these tassels dangling from their epaulettes, obscuring the colour patch. Bearing this in mind, I still believe that the 2nd Remounts is the only colour patch that fits the scene.

Cheers

Bill
Australian Light Horse Studies Centre
http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Horse/

Remembering -

2823 Private Herbert Leslie Schramm [1892-1960]: B Trp, A Sqn, 9th ALHR. The great grandfather of my children.
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Re: prisioners

Postby Steve_Butler » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:26 am

It appears that records of our prisioners walking into Jerusalem has been there all along under our very noses. I had never been able to get a copy of Briscoe Moore's book "The Mounted Riflemen in Sinai and Palestine".
Greg had posted the first three chapters of the book which I condensed into PDF ebook format and made those chapters available on our site at
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http://www.nzmr.org/books.htm
This week Graham Bines was kind enough to loan me a copy and I am reading it for the first time - (and typing it out for our records) when to my surprise on page 129 is this picture below.

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Unfortunately a little hard to reproduce effectively - but it becomes apparent that this image and the one below are from the same event - How strange to make the match after all these years. I am sure that these men in front are the same Kiwis (one man of the four appears to be obscured by the corporal on the near side)in front of an English Officer - the two photographs must have been taken within a minute or two of each other. Note the faint image of the "Augusta Victoria" in the distant background.
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Re: Blackman, Whiteman, Jew

Postby TerryKinloch » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:09 am

Good detective work, Steve!
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Re: Blackman, Whiteman, Jew

Postby Steve_Butler » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:29 pm

Now some four years later a further photograph has surfaced.
This one from the IWM number Q12666
Described as taken in May by Wikipedia articles - but clearly this is the same detail bringing in prisoners from Abu Tellus 15th July 1918.
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