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Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:26 pm
by greg
A little diversion from the main focus of this forum, ie NZMR history. However, I am of the opinion that the more we understand the actions of the NZMR Brigade the more questions arise as to their foes and therefore a need to understand their position. Steve Butler has started a page here and I thought it may be interesting to follow this up by adding some of the information coming out of the blogs Bill Woerlee and Steve Baker are producing to a Google Earth project I have been working on. see the following:

Ottoman Empire.kmz
(10.51 KiB) Downloaded 1525 times

I thought we might start from the beginning and develope the movements of the forces through to the end. I have done much on the ANZAC Cove area, ie most of the Allied/Turkish positions, placenames, frontlines, HQ's and much more. I have also done a little in the Sinai/Palastine area as well as the NZEF departure from NZ. However it may be difficult to follow it due to the vast amount of information that is there now and if I release it without some thought we may get tangled up! It is not perfect by any means and your input is most important. Anyhow take a look at the attached file and see if you can work it out. Remember this starts in November 1914. Will add dates as information is gathered. Just click on the attachment and select open. This should open Google Earth and take you to the Ottoman Empire. You will see the file and its sub folders on the left of the display under Temporary Places. You can drag this folder to your My Places. After you have done this right click on My Places or Ottoman Empire and select Save As. The rest should be easy to follow the hard part is to develope Turkish movements through to the end, bearing in mind it will cover Suez, Gallipoli, Sainai/Palastine, etc...

Look forward to your comments, ideas and input.


Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:34 pm
by Bill Woerlee

G'day mate

You have taken upon yourself a really difficult task but one which is worthwhile. Understanding the Ottoman Empire and its methodology of conducting the war is instructive as it broadens the understanding of the conditions faced by the NZMRB. After all, regardless of what the more jingoistic books state, the men who fought in the Ottoman Army lived and breathed like the rest of us. They had their thoughts and their families. Records indicate that they were not grey cardboard cut-out characters eagerly facing death or hideous wounds on the approach of the NZMRB and so make this formation look good in the history books. These people were intelligent, tenacious and highly skilled. They also had names. Here is one man from the Turkish Records for example:

SAVAÅž - War 1. DÃœNYA
KUVVET - Force K
ORDU - Army 0
KOLORDU - Army Corps 3
FIRKA - Division 19
ALAY - Regiment 57
TABUR - Battalion 3
BÖLÜK - Company 11
BABA ADI - Father's Name HALÄ°L
ADI - Name ALÄ°
SINIF - Type of unit NÄ°ZAMÄ°YE
RÃœTBE - Rank ER
Rank Private
D.YILI - Date of Birth - Rumi 1302
Date of Birth 1884
Age at death 31
GÃœN - Day 4
AY - Month 5
YIL - Year 1915

We know that Ali was 31 and came from Bandirma and fought at Gallipoli. He was killed by someone from the NZ Infantry. When you know his story, you know the full NZ story, the one where NZ was part of a larger story but not the only story.

All the best wishes with your project. Do not hesitate to call me if you wish to obtain some assistance regarding the specifics of an area where I might be able to help.



Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:10 pm
by greg
Hi Bill,

Yes it is difficult task but I guess I have started and so must persue! If you would like to make any suggestions as to direction, etc, please feel free or even direct others that might be interested here!

Many thanks

best wishes

PS. What is ORDU - Army 0

Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:16 pm
by Bill Woerlee

G'day mate

Sorry for taking so long to respond but apart from time restrictions, I have been out of the ACT for a little bit.

ORDU (Tk) = Army (Eng). Since his file does not designate the Army he belonged to, it was recorded as "0".

Hope that helps mate.



Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:01 pm
by stevenbecker

Sorry mate I tried to check your document but the thing failed.

IS there some way to read it?



Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:09 pm
by greg
Hi SB,

The file is a Google Earth file. Sorry but you need to have Google Earth installed on your. PC. I should have mentioned that in the beginning!! Sorry Gett google earth here

Best wishes

Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:58 pm
by stevenbecker

The photo of the Turkish officer, shown as Assad Bey commander of the Cavalry?

Had me checking my lists of Turkish Cavalry officers and I couldn't find any officer so named?

3rd Cavalry Divison

Known Cav Div Commanders

LtCol Esat Bey 1916-18 WIA 2-5-18
- Maj Vecihi Bey (21 Sep 1918)
- LtCol Mahmut Nedim Bey (handek) (30 Sep 1918)

6th Cav Regt - 6th Cav MG Co
7th Cav Regt - 7th Cav MG Co
8th Cav Regt - 8th Cav MG Co

known Regt commanders

6th Cav Regt- LtCol Süleyman
7th Cav Regt- Maj Avni 1915 to LtCol Hendek
8th Cav Regt- Maj Ferhat or Maj Ferad

attached units

1/Bty Horse Artillery (4 x 77mm QF)
2/Bty Horse Artillery (4 x 77mm QF)
1M/Bty (4 x 75mm QF)

? Cav MG Sqn (possibly formed from Regt MG Co's)
133rd AAC team
Cav Sig sect
37th mobil hospital
213th mobile hospital.

3rd Cav Div formed Thrace 1915 to Caucasus 1916 to Palestine 1917 destroyed late 1918

The Cav Regts in the 3rd Cav Div veried from month to month as they moved to other areas,

Later in the war this Cav Bde arrived in late 1918;

Formed as the;

2nd Kalfas (Caucasus) Cav Bde T/att 49th Div Caucasus 1916-17

Maj Irfan 1917-18

1st Cav Regt
9th Cav Regt
11th Cav Regt

1st Cav Regt - LtCol Mustafa Ziya
9th Cav Regt - LtCol Ismail Hakki
11th Cav Regt - Maj Nadir

April - May 1918 part of 8th Corps at Es Salt (shown in June 1918 Allied orders as 7th, 9th & 11th Cav Regts) and Amman Aug 1918 - 9th Cav Regt 11th Cav Regt to Comp Div

more to follow

Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:50 pm
by stevenbecker
renamed as the Independant Cav Bde LtCol Hamdi Bey CofS Maj Kenan

7th Cav Regt - (attached from 3rd Cav Div)
11th Cav Regt -
13th Cav Regt

7th Cav Regt- Maj Avni 1915
11th Cav Regt - Maj Nadir
13th Cav Regt - Maj Sami Sabit

later it had these units;

Independant Cav Bde

11th Cav Regt
(shown 12th Cav Regt? possibly 13th Cav Regt)
26th Cav Regt (from the Yeman Corps)
27th Cav Regt (from the Div Cav Sqns 16, 24 and 26th Divs)
31st Cav Regt (from the 12th Cav Bde in Persia)
33rd Cav Regt- 33rd Cav MG Co (from 12th Cav Bde in Persia)
1-3/Circassian Cav Regt (local native Arabs)



Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:27 pm
by stevenbecker

Of cause I forgot to mention most of the Division Cav Sqn's, attach to each Infantry Div or some Corps HQ's had them.

These are these from Divisions that passed through Palestine;

3rd Div - 2nd Sqn 3rd Cav Regt

23rd Div - 2nd Sqn 29th Cav Regt

24th Div - 2nd Sqn 27th Cav Regt

25th Div -1st Sqn 29th Cav Regt

26th Div - 3rd Sqn 27th Cav Regt

27th Div -3rd Sqn 29th Cav Regt,

16th Div - 1st Sqn 27th Cav Regt

42nd Div -(1st) or 7th Sqn 12th Cav Regt

46th Div - 46th Div Cav Sqn

53rd Div - 53rd Div Cav Sqn

54th Div - 2x Sqn's 33rd Cav Regt

7th Div - 2nd Sqn 4th Cav Regt

7th Corps HQ - Sqn 33rd Cav Regt

2nd Corps HQ - 4th Sqn 3rd Cav Regt

Other Known Corps HQ or Division either didn't have a Cav Sqn or not known.


Re: Ottoman Empire 1914

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:21 pm
by stevenbecker

Sorry My fault.

Assad Bey is better known by his Turkish name and that is LtCol Esat Bey commander 3rd Cav Div.

Assad is the English version of his Turkish name.

From Tosun Saral » 23 Jan 2015 19:12

Cav.Staff Col. Esad Bey. C of 3rd Cav. at Palestme
We write Esat or Esad
Arabs write Essed
British write Assad
Asad, Essed, Assad is an arabic mane which means Lion.
Esat Bey was borned in 1875 in Sebinkarahisar on Middle Turkey.He was a circassian Turk from Caucasus. Brother of Grandvezier Müşir/Fieldnarschal Ahmet Izzet Pasha. In 1919 he was made Commander of Istanbul. He supported Mustafa Kemal Pasha and helped him secretly smugling weapos and men to Anatolia under occupied Istanbul. After the peace (7.10.1922-4.4.1923) he was made governor of Istanbul and promoted to Pasha in 1924. In Syrian Front he was wounded severely. For that reason he suffered to much.He retired in 1925 and died in Istanbul in 1932.